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throwaway81523 8 hours ago [-]
Article describes try/finally as a hack to get the effect of defer, but it looks to me like it's the other way around? Try/finally is more traditional, in one form or another.
healeycodes 12 minutes ago [-]
Author here. I find try/finally verbose and vulnerable to mistakes. For me, it adds "function noise".
Rohansi 7 hours ago [-]
It's also necessary here because TypeScript has exceptions and you'd expect your `defer`s to execute even when an exception is thrown.
wannabe44 1 hours ago [-]
A (lexically-scoped) defer is a more general than a finally block. You can express finally-block semantics using defer.
It's also more exception-safe when you have more than one throwing call in the try block.
gtowey 3 hours ago [-]
Finally isn't bullet proof. If you execute a promise in a try block and it happens to end without resolving, the finally block will be never be executed. Fun stuff.
anttiharju 3 hours ago [-]
defer isn't bullet proof either. I think there's a linter about it and os.Exit.
One can just wrap os.Exit in a helper to get the expected behaviour.
Joker_vD 3 hours ago [-]
Also, if you pull the power plug, neither finally blocks nor defers would run. I personally consider it a clear and obvious deficiency in the semantics (and the implementations) of those programming languages but everybody refuses to listen to me.
cute_boi 3 hours ago [-]
I think this is correct behavior.
```
async function run() {
try {
await new Promise(() => {
// The executor function finishes,
// but it never calls resolve() or reject().
});
} finally {
console.log("cleanup");
}
}
```
I never expect cleanup to be logged.
kaashif 7 hours ago [-]
If the idea of computers is that they remember stuff for you and do stuff for you, then both try/finally and defer seem like hacks to work around not having RAII like e.g. Rust or C++ where resources are closed/disposed of/deallocated automatically.
Try X finally dispose of all resources. X, defer clean up X. Or how about just X and cleanup is done automatically, with the author of the resources deciding what is needed to clean X up.
What if you forget to use that and just use let or const? It is better than plain try-finally or defer because you don't have to remember how to dispose of the resources but in terms of remember to dispose of the resource at all, I don't think that is all that different from Python's with or Java's try-with-resources. You can just forget to use using, with, try-with-resources.
There isn't any way to forget to drop a resource if you have RAII.
throw-the-towel 4 hours ago [-]
Yes, but you also have this problem with `defer`.
masklinn 39 minutes ago [-]
And try/finally.
okigan 4 hours ago [-]
it's mesmerizing that the fantastic ergonomics of RAII have not propagated to other languages.
It's way easier to use, much clear, less typing, more predictable runtime behavior.
RAII... terrible name, great concept!
masklinn 33 minutes ago [-]
RAII has complications in GC’d, fuzzy ownership langages, it becomes much less ergonomic there because now passing an RAII object as parameter to a function causes that function to clean it up, so you need additional mechanisms to bypass this. Same if you just poke an RAII object inside a collection.
Traditionally langages with simpler runtimes simply used destructors for this, refcounting made it deterministic (modulo the old reference leak), but more advanced garbage collection schemes made that stop working.
Rohansi 3 hours ago [-]
I mean, sure, but RAII (in C++, at least) is implemented the same way as this article: with a try...finally block!
RAII doesn't really fit into every language because they don't all have deterministic destructors/finalizers and objects with scoped lifetimes. Sometimes you only have one but not the other and you definitely need both.
Would call stack/source map reasonably work with this?
healeycodes 1 minutes ago [-]
Reasonably? Yes. Could probably be made to work well.
$ bat 2.ts
───────────────
1 │ function one() {
2 │ let x = 1;
3 │ defer (() => { throw new Error("thrown from one!"); })()
4 │ x = 2;
5 │ }
6 │ one();
─────┴─────────
$ node 2.js
~/healeycodes-typescript-go/2.js:29
throw _errors_1[0];
^
Error: thrown from one!
at _callee_1 (/Users/andrew/Documents/GitHub/healeycodes-typescript-go/2.js:9:46)
at /Users/andrew/Documents/GitHub/healeycodes-typescript-go/2.js:10:33
at one (/Users/andrew/Documents/GitHub/healeycodes-typescript-go/2.js:22:31)
at Object.<anonymous> (/Users/andrew/Documents/GitHub/healeycodes-typescript-go/2.js:34:1)
at Module._compile (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1830:14)
at Object..js (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1961:10)
at Module.load (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1553:32)
at Module._load (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:1355:12)
at wrapModuleLoad (node:internal/modules/cjs/loader:255:19)
at Module.executeUserEntryPoint [as runMain (node:internal/modules/run_main:154:5)
Node.js v24.15.0
It's also more exception-safe when you have more than one throwing call in the try block.
One can just wrap os.Exit in a helper to get the expected behaviour.
``` async function run() { try { await new Promise(() => { // The executor function finishes, // but it never calls resolve() or reject(). }); } finally { console.log("cleanup"); } } ```
I never expect cleanup to be logged.
Try X finally dispose of all resources. X, defer clean up X. Or how about just X and cleanup is done automatically, with the author of the resources deciding what is needed to clean X up.
There isn't any way to forget to drop a resource if you have RAII.
It's way easier to use, much clear, less typing, more predictable runtime behavior.
RAII... terrible name, great concept!
Traditionally langages with simpler runtimes simply used destructors for this, refcounting made it deterministic (modulo the old reference leak), but more advanced garbage collection schemes made that stop working.
RAII doesn't really fit into every language because they don't all have deterministic destructors/finalizers and objects with scoped lifetimes. Sometimes you only have one but not the other and you definitely need both.
defer is the thing I miss the most coming from Go